Posted by: adventlife | December 24, 2012

A Question for Dr. Walter Veith, by Nic Samojluk

Walter VeithDr. Walter J. Veith,

I just finished watching your interview with Bruce Jenkings and must say that I am impressed with the clarity with which you explain your doctrinal position, especially your accurate view of the true meaning of the term “Remnant” as it relates to the Adventist doctrines. [http://www.youtube.com/user/TheClosingOfTime#p/u/12/p-QQ0dvy5KE]

Unlike your personal experience, I am a second generation Adventist, and I grew up with the conviction that the “Remnant” will be integrated by those who remain faithful to Jesus and all Ten of God’s Commandments, instead of only Nine or less.

My question to you is: Can our Adventist church still claim to the “Remnant” title, given the fact that our church has redefined the true and unambiguous meaning of the Sixth Commandment which prohibits the killing of innocent human beings? Have you read the Adventist “Guidelines on Abortion”?

If you have, you might have noticed that said guidelines specify some exclusions to the killing of human beings in cases of abortion when the pregnancy has been the result of rape or incest. Does it make legal sense to let the guilty rapist live and to kill instead one of the victims of such criminal act?

Did you notice that the same guidelines also justify abortion under the mental exception so ardently defended by the pro-abortion crowd? This exception has actually opened the way for elective abortions—abortions on demand, which resulted in the largest genocide of human being ever recorded in history.

It works this way: Individuals engage in irresponsible sexual activity, fornication or even  adultery; the female gets pregnant and in desperation tells her doctor: “I feel depressed and I can neither study, work or sleep.” The result in most cases is another murder of an innocent baby who has done no wrong.

Did you know that we Adventist—especially in North America—have led the way in the legalization of abortion? This has been amply documented in our Adventist literature. Our church did allow one of our hospitals to provide abortions on demand services to their patients back in 1970—three years before the U.S. Supreme Court gave Carte Blanche for the killing of the unborn.

As you can imagine, several other Adventist hospitals did the same, and this is documented in the pages of our official “Ministry” magazine. The current General Conference president and the one who preceded him did publicly declare that our church is pro-life. How can we take such declarations at face value? Don’t actions speak louder than words?

Our guidelines on abortion claim that our church does not condone abortions on demand, but the facts of history tell us a different story. Some of our hospitals have offered abortions on demand for many decades with impunity. Isn’t this reminiscent of what Pilate did: He washed his hands and laid the blame for the death of an innocent man on the Jewish leaders. Did that remove the blood stains of his hands?

You may ask: “How do you know all this?” Well, I spent several years researching the Adventist literature and have finally published a book on this topic. I hope you might be tempted to read it. I am willing to order a gift copy for you if you send me your mailing address by return mail.

If you read my book, please let me know whether you still think that the AdventistChurch has the right to claim the “Remnant” name! Here is the title of the book and some links you can use to access the Lulu site.

“From Pro-life to Pro-choice: The Dramatic Shift in Seventh-day Attitudes Towards Abortion.”

A. http://www.lulu.com/browse/search.php?fListingClass=7&fSearch=%22From+Pro-life+to+Pro-choice%22&fSubmitSearch=Go&showingSubPanels=&fSort=relevance_desc

B. From Pro-life to Pro-choice – Lulu1.com.htm

C. http://www.lulu.com/browse/books/7 and then type my name—Nic Samojluk- or the first few words of the title of the book—From Pro-life—in the search blank space.

*********

I sent this query to Dr. Veith many months ago and I am still waiting for an answer. Perhaps he may never respond. My hope is that he is pro-life for the following reasons:

  1. He was raised a Catholic, and the Catholic organization is opposed to abortion.
  2. He talks as a conservative Adventist on many respects, and Adventist pioneers were definitely pro-life.
  3. He adheres to the permanence and validity of the Ten Commandments of the Decalogue.

What do you think?

Link to Dr. Veith’s Interview

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheClosingOfTime#p/u/12/p-QQ0dvy5KE

You might be aware that Walter Veith is a world renowned author, speaker and writer, with a background in science and religion who converted from Catholicism to Adventism and is very active in the study and research of the topic of creation versus evolution.

Recently, he has been in the news among Adventists especially in Europe where the leadership of the church has issues an order asking all Adventist churches to close their doors to his preaching.

He is being accused of anti-Semitism, but he has clarified that this accusation is based on mere semantics, and that it was due to a difference between the language spoken in South Africa and Germany.

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Responses

  1. While there are consequences to breaking any of the 10 commandments there are none none none for breaking the Sabbath – a commandment given only only only to the nation of Israel and not not not to His church.

    • Lee,

      Wrong conclusion! Read the following text and notice that Jesus’ clear reference is to the Ten Commandments of the Decalogue.

      New International Version (©1984)
      You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'” [Mark10:19]

      Now listen to James argument:

      New International Version (©1984)
      For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. [James 2:10-11]

      Again, the reference is specifically the Ten Commandments of the Decalogue. This means that your excuse is not valid.

      Lee, I noticed that I have a long list of comments posted by you. If you respond immediately to this one, I may never be able to catch up with your other comments. I have been sick and got behind in my work.

      I also noticed that we tend to repeat almost the same arguments over and over. We need to find a way to wrap this up. We seem to have no followers, except you and I.

      Nic Samojluk

      • In regard to your comments on the Dr. Walter Veich in your quotes of James 2 and Mark 10:19, all these commandments are clearly moral commands – something that almost always has consequences of some kinds.

        Also morality as we see it in the Bible is something that is inherent in the very nature of man created in God’s image.

        However, clearly lacking in the New Covenant is any command or even a recommendation for the believer to observe anything that is unique Jewish as is the Sabbath, and the Levitical food laws.

        Clearly, (and no Adventists has yet to give me an answe)r,if the Sabbath (or the food laws) were applicable to the believer, we would most certainly see it taught in the early church. But we see nothing in early church history that supports anything that is uniquely Jewish in nature.

        So the Adventists really do not follow in those traditions established by the Apostles or their immediate successors.

        Hopefully you can see this as a problem with Adventist belief system.

      • Lee,

        No, I don’t see this as a problem! I have answered these objections you mention here for the upteenth time. There is no need for me to repeat my answers ad infinitum. Simply read the answers I posted already.

        Nic Samojluk

      • //No, I don’t see this as a problem! I have answered these objections you mention here for the upteenth time. There is no need for me to repeat my answers ad infinitum. Simply read the answers I posted already.

        You fail to realize that not all law in the Bible is moral law, nor is all commandments directed to the Christian. If it were, then you would have to go build a boat as that is what God commanded to Noah. Also upon what possible basis do you believe that what God commanded to Israel – no matter the means or glory involved, would also pertain to the church?

        Nic – it is really all about propertly dividing the word of truth. is it not?

        2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth..

      • Lee,

        My suggestion to you is: Do not alter what the Lord himself has written with his own finger!

        Nic Samojluk

      • You wrote: My suggestion to you is: Do not alter what the Lord himself has written with his own finger!

        Matthew4:4 But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY word that comes from the mouth of God.”’

        However we are also to righfully divide the word of truth.

        2Ti 2:15AV Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

        2Ti 2:15NIV Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who CORRECTLY handles the word of truth.

      • //Wrong conclusion! Read the following text and notice that Jesus’ clear reference is to the Ten Commandments of the Decalogue.

        One needs to realize that jesus emphasized morality; not observance of the Sabbath. If He did , we would see Jesus having it penned in the Epistles as well as taught by His Spirit in the early church. but we do not.

        //Lee, I noticed that I have a long list of comments posted by you. If you respond immediately to this one, I may never be able to catch up with your other comments. I have been sick and got behind in my work.

        Yes, my wife is sick maybe even dying and I have become her caretaker. She is a diabetic on dialysis and does as little as possible around the home.Fortuately my own health problem are not as great so I can still care for her. It is a labor of love and not really a burden.

      • Lee,

        Sorry to hear that your wife is sick. We need to pray for her and for each other. I am still down with the flu, but fortunately my wife is a nurse and is doing all she can to get me back on my feet.

        Nic Samojluk

      • You wrote: Sorry to hear that your wife is sick. We need to pray for her and for each other. I am still down with the flu, but fortunately my wife is a nurse and is doing all she can to get me back on my feet.

        I am also a realist and I fully expect her to go home to be with the Lord early this year.Her health;problems are becoming worst by the day.

      • Lee,

        The final decision belongs to the Lord! I can relate to your pain. We lost our young loving daughter 16 years ago in a car accident, and our son over a year and a half ago as a result of a massive stroke. May the Lord be with you and your wife!

      • Dear Mr. Jensen, Just as your care for your wife is out of your love for her and is not a burden, so it is with us who don’t want to miss our special weekly date with God. Certainly, we want to walk with God every day, but since God has blessed and sanctified (set apart for holy use) the seventh day from the time of creation, asked us to “remember” it in the Ten Commandments, and said that in these last days He would write the principles of His kingdom in our hearts, then it’s a special time we don’t want to miss – a date we look forward to – a weekly anniversary we don’t want to forget. Therefore: “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not burdensome.” (I John 5:3). We trust God and know that He provides only good gifts for His children. His commandments are righteous and just, contrary to the devil’s claims whereby one-third of the angels fell and were deceived. The prophet Daniel describes the continuing treason against God in Chap 7:25: “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and…think to change times and laws.” Thankfully, each of us can make the choice for ourselves – “And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” (Joshua 24:15).
        May God bless both you and your wife, and Mr. Nic Samojluk as you deal with the challenges of sickness. In Christian love I write as a follower of our Lord Jesus Christ.

      • I suspect that what the feeling you get from attending Sabbath services is really the presence of God’s Spirit (if He truly indwells you) when you worship Him and study His Word together. However, I really do not see that pertains to any particular day of the week.

        1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

        Are the commandments that John is speaking of, the Decalogue? Adventists have been trained to always put the word “ten” in front of the word “commandments” when they see it.

        And yes, Christ came to give us life and life abundantly and that is a good reason to be obedient for His ways have become our ways.

        John 10:10 I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.

        But does not our joy really come from abiding in Him, rather than following a set of rules as interpreted by some religious leader. The Sabbath keeping and law abiding Pharisees thought they were doing all the right things, but they turned out to be the chief enemies of Jesus.

        As for the book of Daniel, I just finished reading the commentary by John Walvoord. It is all too easy to see that Adventists have a very misleading and unjustifiable interpretation of the book.

        The worst people to deal with is those who think they alone have most if not all the truth.

      • Lee,

        Since you do not admire those who believe they have the truth, I conclude that you are searching for the truth instead of having already found it. This kind of acknowledgment is encouraging. I hope you find!

  2. It was wonderful to read this morning of your communication sent to Dr. Veith. Thank you again for allowing God to use you in standing up boldly for the principles of His Kingdom, which are the principles of love and respect for Him, as our Creator, and loving and caring for others. We know God has allowed this period in eternity to reveal the devil for what he is – a murderer, the father of lies, a thief that steals, kills, and destroys. And Jesus is the life-giver and our supreme Example of sacrificial love. (John 8:44) (John 10:10) Our own choices and the spirit in which we make them reavel who our “father” is. May God bless us to faithfully continue to lift up His character and righteousness wherever and whenever the opportunity.

    • alknp,

      Your comments are like a crystal clear oasis water in the middle of the desert!

      Nic Samojluk

  3. Excellent question, Nic! Has Dr. Veith written you bak yet?

    • Tammy,

      Not yet. I am beginning to wonder whether I will ever get a response from him.

      Nic


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